Tuesday, April 27, 2010

Shidduch Experiment

Is the internet filled with weirdos? Crazy, creepy, stalkers, who lurk in cyber shadows, afraid to venture out into the real world?

I don't think so. I think the internet has become pretty main stream. Regular people use it; nice normal people surf this site, people like me, and like you.

Yes, you.

And now the question is, Are you a guy? Are you single? Are you smart? Are you a balance of seriously Frum and open minded? Do you want to live in Israel?

And if you don't fit the above criteria, maybe you know somebody who does?

Frum Satire's been trying to convince me for months to post a Shidduch profile on his site. I remained skeptical. Why look for trouble? It’s not like I don't have boys to go out with.

But I'm trying to break out of the mold. I've been dating for four years, from ever since I turned nineteen. And I don't think I've been meeting the right type of guy. I could carry on with the way I've been doing things. Hear the same Shidduch suggestions from family friends, and siblings' friends, and Seminary friends' husbands'. But instead I turn to you, the world-wide-web. Frumster and SYAS work for some people, is this any different?

So here goes. And I know I can rely on all my wonderful friends in the JBlogosphere to link to this post, and spread the word. (Yup, that's a hint! Admit it's a fun way to test the power of blogging.)

"So tell me about yourself"

Well I fall between two worlds

Boys who are raised in Israel, and go through the Chareidi system, tend to become very Chareidi themselves. While we girls keep our home's Hashkafa, and still look for openness.

And so I turn my eyes to the States. But it's hard to find a YU-style guy, who wants to live in Israel. It's hard to find ANY YU-Style guys, while I'm in Israel.

Of course, maybe the real reason I'm still single is that Clever Girls are Ugly

Or that I'm Frum N' Feminist

And oh no, have they been speaking to my neighbors?

Did they hear about my lack of housekeeping skills?

Anyway, I shall continue my search for True Love

Maybe my next date will be a GOOD Shidduch Date?

And maybe I'll meet him online?

My email address is chutznikit@gmail.com . Consider this an experiment.


  1. I'll keep you in mind bli neder. Do you have anything against Russian guys? :)

  2. You are marvelous, and the embodiment of a shvil zahav that my own daughters pursue as well. Were I 25 years younger I would snatch you up in a second for myself. As a Wall Street professional, both in Israel and Tel Aviv, I must disagree with your basic premise. There are no lack of Bnei Torah with degrees from Columbia, Harvard and Tel Aviv U practicing finance, law, accounting and medicine. Including my own sons. You seem trapped in Jerusalem, and extrapolate that as the sole reality. You know better.

  3. Erratum- I obviously meant Wall Street and Tel Aviv, lest we refer once again to the basic reality that Judea and Gush Dan remain two distinct countries populated by Jews, even 3000 years later

  4. Hope this works - you're quite right to give it a try!
    What about considering guys from Britain - combining a university education with yeshiva learning is not banned here.
    B'hatzlacha rabba

  5. See here, "The Hasid and the Fairy Queen" for a real-life fairy tale, the kind you would like for yourself (point being: it CAN happen, just via the blogosphere).


    Ken yirbu!

  6. Interesting experiment. Good luck!

  7. This is better than a standard shidduch profile, because by reading your blog, people actually get to know you, your likes and dislikes, dreams, how you think, etc. Way to go. Hope it works. (And be careful, the internet IS filled with weirdos.)

  8. I've been sitting on a post since before I actually started my blog (hence my initial apology about the gym teacher giving mussar schmoozes not being the real first post) that discusses the idea of making some sort of blogger shidduch suggestion system. I am not entirely sure to what degree people REALLY show themselves on blogs though, because keeping a persona on the web is something that many people do/attempt. I think it's an interesting idea, though.

  9. What makes a guy "YU-style" anyway?

    I've been clubbing in DC with a YU guy, and I've also met (also in DC, this being where I'm finishing up school; they were down for the weekend) YU guys with peyos (mind, I do not know what his hashkafa is since I didn't talk to him for very long).

    As for your questions, I suppose I should answer them, although at best, I probably get a combined, say, 3.75 on your questions.

    Are you a guy? Yes (1 point)
    Are you single? Yes [born same secular year as yourself, different Jewish year] (1 point)

    Are you smart? Absolutely. I am starting a PhD in Computer Science at Georgia Tech (#10 school in the US in Computer Science, and #7 in theory [per U.S. News and World Report], my area. Actually, the College of Computing just poached former TAU president Zvi Galil as the new incoming dean) this fall. But I'm smart on non-tech stuff too. (1 point)

    Are you a balance of seriously Frum and open minded?

    I'd go with "It's complicated" (with significant demerits on the seriously frum side ; read my blog's About Me for details)

    (.5 points)

    Do you want to live in Israel? Not ruling it out ever, but can't for five years and probably generally lean against it (.25 points)

    However, I will be in Israel this summer and need things to do. I generally get along well with bloggers (Jewish or otherwise). If you have any free time for non-strictly shidduch things, I'd be interested in meeting you.

  10. In terms of using blogging to find a shidduch, see this site: http://jewishorthodoxsingles.blogspot.com/

  11. Well, this is definitely a way to break out of the mold. Wouldn't it bother you dating a guy who knew so much about your thoughts beforehand, assuming you don't know as much about him? I know I would be scared to date anyone who read my blog, but, if you're not, that's cool. If I can make a suggestion, if you are meeting people from your blog, bring some form of physical protection. Not everyone on the internet is a weirdo, but just about all weirdos are on the internet. Good Luck.

  12. Good Luck with your experiment! Great idea! I'll keep you in mind b'n.

    Are you interested in Shar Yashuv type guys?

  13. Do you like skeptics and closeted atheists who keep mitzvos anyway?

  14. I'm long overdue onrespong to Y'all. So first of all- thanks for your comments!

    Anon613- English guys are definitiely an option, but same as with Americans, I only meet the Mir version of them. With sometimes a Medrash Shmuel guy thrown in.

    BJG and Mary Poppins- Don't worry, I learned kick boxing once ;-)

    RedTred- I don't know much about Shar Yashuv guys. What are they like? Do they end up in ISrael?

    SternGrad- Interesting..

    Dwight- No, not really. To me being genuine about religion is very important.

    Shades of Grey- I want to write a post about the web personas of bloggers. I think the majority of us are being exceedingly honest, possibly too much so. On the other hand,without us meaning to, our readers can be left with innacurate impresisons about us. Good writers don't always make good talkers..

  15. would you date a 30 yr old?

  16. "Alice laughed: "There's no use trying," she said; "one can't believe impossible things."
    "I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
    Alice in Wonderland.

  17. If you ever use those kick boxing skills on a date, I want to hear about it.

    About bloggers being too honest and people getting inaccurate impressions of us, I've definitely seen that. I've only had four people who read my blog find out who I am, three of them had what I would consider very inaccurate impressions of me.

  18. I wrote on my blog that I like to watch porn and 3 girls canceled their dates with me. I bet they do it too though, probably not daily but nevertheless.

  19. Yeah, I'm also very against the notion that all bloggers are "crazy, creepy, stalkers", especially considering I'm one myself (not a stalker silly! A blogger!). I've always found it to be quite the opposite actually; bloggers are usually the cream of the crop. Deep, intellectual, opinionated idealists. I mean, if they write a blog it obviously shows that they've got a lot on their mind and are able to express themselves well. But even if they read blogs (and especially if they comment) it shows they have the patience and intellectual capacity to read, comprehend and sympathize with their peers. I have friends who are simply not capable of all that. They're the ones you wanna' watch out for!

    In the past two years I've met many bloggers, and the only conclusion I've come to is that they're extremely cool and extremely smart, unanimously. ...which is probably why a lot of them seem to be mysteriously drawn to each other (even in a marital capacity, as is the case with Chana and surprisingly many others)...

  20. Pinchas: WTF dude?! Even if they do (and G-d knows they don't!) you still can't say that! Reminds me of a "co-mashgiach" I once had who would hang out by our building's pool (FL) and tell us he likes "people watching"!

    Oh, and in regards to Mir and Shor Yoshuv: I've been to both. VERY diverse crowds, but obviously Shor Yoshuv guys are usually more "modern" as far as things like working are concerned..

  21. Funnily enough I have an Israeli-Chutznik friend who has similar complaints to you, in finding a girl. (Though my impression is that you're more intellectual/deep, and perhaps just a little more modern, than he is, so I'm not sure it's a Shidduch.) I also know (though not very well) a number of Israeli American families (in Har Nof as it happens), who I think aren't too Israeli, even on the boy's sides. From the little I know, I wouldn't necessarily pair you and them, but I'm not convinced that the breed need be so elusive. (Incidentally, here on the other side of the Atlantic, at least in my experience, it's not much easier to find a 'hybrid', middle-ground girl.)

  22. The hybrids are usually intellectually dishonest and fakers. Like Rav Hutner z"l said, modern orthodoxy is like buttoning a shirt when you buttoned the top botton one off and keep buttoning that way all the way down. It just doesn't work and comes out all crooked up. There is no integrity in the sense that ones alligiances are split up. Like Eliyahu Hanovi told the people how long are you going to hop on both feet? If Baal is right, if Hashem is right. If you think secular culture is good then you should become secular. If you don't think it's good you should become chareidi. But just be honest with yourself, what is the truth? Does God want me to watch movies? If you think yes then you don't believe in God. Because movies have shvichat damim, gilui arayot, and avoda zara. If that's what you're into, your way is gehinom.

  23. Pinhas: Your whole comment is ridiculous, few things in life are that simple that you can say either good or bad and that's it. If they were, almost all of us would be bad. Fortunately God isn't as judgmental as you.

  24. I've always agreed with this Pinhasian theology, and still do essentially. Being blatantly "פוסח על שני הסעיפים" is silly, and doing things such as mindlessly sitting in front of a television have no legitimacy in our worldview. But the question really is does G-d really ask of me to dress in all black, sound funny and otherwise mimic eastern europeanisms while refusing to support my family..?

    But seriously, I've seen both full-fledged Haredim and kipot Srugot people who haven't had a religious thought מימיהם. Those are the ones from both communities that we should aspire NOT to be like...

  25. Pinhas, your comment underscores one of the biggest challenges in Shidduchim - that none of us have matching objective dictionaries. For me, 'hybrid' is not modern orthodox (though I'm rather less opposed to them than you seem to be), but more what some people have called 'open-minded Chareidi', 'chilled Yeshivish', and many similar combinations of subjective and amorphous terms.

    My comfort level in the rather wide grey area BJG references is something along the lines of [my perception of] the Hirschian model, where Torah and Mesorah are primary, but contemporary society is not rejected out-of-hand, and shunned, but rather mined for what it can contribute to a Jewishly-attuned life.

  26. Pinchas: While we are talking about R' Hutner zt"l, we should mention how he responded to someone who was involved in secular and Torah studies and felt this gave him a split personality. R' Hutner compared the guy's life to a house with two different rooms, say a kitchen and a bedroom. Nobody would say that the house was split into two incompatible parts. Rather, each part was valuable for filling a different need. In R' Hutner's language, someone involved in Torah and the secular world did not have a "split" life, rather, they had a "broad" life.

  27. And while we're at it, lets remind ourselves of what he said about the Rav, that there is no such thing as two minds - one for hashkafa and one for gemara. He held that the Rav's hashkafot were screwed up and that that in turn disemboweled his talmud learning. The inference to be made is that a mind can not be compartmentalized. The true view is that we unlike the Rambam have very small minds and when we put things in it they invariably get mixed and conflated. Secular studies should be left to people with great minds like the Rambam, Rav Hutner and Stern girls.

  28. Pinhas:

    Do you have a source for what you cite as Rav Hutner's critique of the Rav?

  29. Is there a source for any saying anyone attributes to the Gedolim? It's what people in yeshiva say, who heard it from other people, etc.

  30. The quote that Name/Url adduced is in print in a collection of Michtavim from R' Hutner (if desired, I can track down precisely where). I would lend that far more credence than 'what people in yeshiva say'; k"vch to an *inference* from 'what people say', as Pinhas proposed above.

  31. I would actually like the reference, if it's not too much trouble.

  32. It's in Pachad Yitzchok - Igros u'Ksovim, No. 94. When I took it off the shelf in Yeshiva, it was easy to find, as someone had put a little bookmark in at that page!

  33. Thanks! I misunderstood you, though - I thought you knew a source for Pinhas's claim. The letter you reference about the double life is indeed famous.

  34. Lol, sorry. That was my point - Pinhas quotes something with no known source, beyond hearsay.

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